Skin the Home Page Entries

[COBOLdinosaur]

Post entries for the contest here.

Details of contest are at: http://contest.expertsrt.com/new_skin.html

Contest entries and questions only please. For discussions, critiques, and contest chit chat please start another thread.

[Roönaän]

Cd&,

Not sure about this one, but shouldn't there be either one div with id="container", or two divs with class="container".

At this stage there are two id="container" divs, which is fine by me, but not sure if that should be changed before continuing from a validation/standards point of view.

-r-

[COBOLdinosaur]

You're right it should be class.  I will change them.

[Esopo]

I just found out about this thread. Count me in.

Question:
The page says no changes to the HTML. That includes images? Can I add an image here or there?

[COBOLdinosaur]

The idea is to create a default theme on the layout, so that it can be easily re-themed using the CSS. Re-theming will mean being able to change the src of an image, but if the layout is not the same how do you do simple re-skinning you will have to have scripting that is specific for each theme to start re-writing HTML.  If everyone does a different layout, we may end up with a nice page but it will still not have any alternate themes and the process of developing skins for the home page starts over again.

With that said, if you have alternatives to the layout, by all means present them, but if the layout is not easily skined with CSS changes, then it technically does not qualify for the contest.  There can be a little flexibility in the rules, but to be fair to all who enter, qualified entries have to follow the rules.  

The other thing is that the same general layout is going to be used right across the site, including the forum.  We have just spent the weekend working on a change in the look of the forum to get rid of a lot of the graphics, and the text links give it a much cleaner look.  However having demonstrate my lack of design skills I am not going to say don't do it; but the layout as we have it will do everything we need it to do and handle all the page types we need it to handle.

I don't want to re-debate which should come first layout or design, but for the present moment that layout is what needs to be designed around and I think the real challenge is going to be getting a design that will look good in the forum. That layout is from developers. It will work right across the site with very little work because it uses solid devlopment principles, best practice, and transparent IE hacks.

Sean had some layout ideas and I told to present them. Even if they are not a contest entry we may still incorporate good ideas for layout or design as we are developing the themes.

[Esopo]

Noted. I'll comply with the contest rules and if any other idea comes to mind I'll present it separatedly.

[COBOLdinosaur]

Yeah that's cool.  I realize we don't see eye to eye on what things should look like, but I am not a designer; and don't pretend to be.  The layout is from a developers view of things and hopefully the designers will be able to help the developers make it look better, because it works well; and having both technical quality and good looks is an objective worth pursuing.

Cd&

[seandelaney]

And i will present it (before the deadline) - its just i have not got time at the moments to change it out off XHTML 1..

[Esopo]

(...) having both technical quality and good looks is an objective worth pursuing.
Cd&

We certainly have our difference of opinions, but that line I quoted is all we really need to agree upon. ERT was once an infant project, and now that it has advanced to "young" I'm sure we both have a clearer view on what things will fit the ERT bill. I'd dare say our opinions may have grown closer to a middle ground, perhaps more than we'd like to find out by entertaining another 15-pages thread.

I can say, to that matter, that I have been liking every change made since the first version, including the recent cleaning-up of the thread view.

 :thumbup:

[COBOLdinosaur]

Most of the credit for the thread cleanup goes to Sean.  I posted a list of things that needed to be done to relieve some of my workload and he took on the task of starting the forum cleanup. He did a great job of cleaning up the look of the topics.  =D>  =D>  :thumbup:  

The forum is going to undergo a radical change of look, but it is also going to get big changes for SEO and technical improvments.

The single most improtant thing for our growth right now is traffic from Google.  One of the things Google stresses as being important for Goolge-friendlyness is that it is easy for their bots. I just finished reading an article about the latest revamping of the Google index and change in their spiders.  The changes are big enough for it to be a named re-indexing (the first major shakeup since Jagger in October). This one is called big daddy, and is has added additional smarts to the bots to for improved quality analysis, and the indexing has changed to bring better quality content to the top of the rankings, by punishing a lot of the crap from SE spammers.

Web sites over the last 2 weeks0 are seeing whether or not the "new" Google likes them better or worse, not by page rank changes, but where they come up in the SERPs. We jumped way up on searches where I have been able to compare, and our hits for Google have doubled over the last two weeks.  we are also doing better with users with users.  The percentage of returning visitors in March was 12%; so far this month it its running at 43% and that is with a 30% increase in traffic.

Now back to the Google re-indexing.  One of the hits we got from Googel was on a thread that came up number 3 behind MSDN and EE.  Three weeks ago the same search argument brought us up on page 3 in 25th place.  The MSDN thread was not even on topic, The EE thread was a year old, graded with a B, attend by only an unranked "expert" and did not contain a real answer.  The ERT thread was a discussion by three top Mentors and led to a definitive and easily understood answer.  Where do you think that user is going to look first when they need help again?

QUALITY CONTENT is what ERT is about.
QUALITY CONTENT is what Google is looking to deliver in the SERPs.
QUALITY CONTENT can't be faked or scammed.
and
QUALITY CONTENT is what builds a loyal user following.

So we want ERT to look good, but usability, functionality, accessibility, and content are going to get more users to the site; and bring them back.  What a good looking site should help us with and needs to focus on, is making them feel comfortable enough to join the community and particpate in helping the site grow.  That is one of the reason I think we need to have a simple presentation that users can re-skin and customize.  If there is one thing we know for certain it is that no single design, or presentation is going to be liked by everyone, so we need a durable shell that can support a range of user preferences, so we can get rid of the PHPBB templates and have as site where every page including the forums, can say "Designed, Programmed and Managed throught the efforts of Experts Round Table members".

[j3one]

I got a good start on this last weekend (sat) but now its 90% and I am desperatly trying to get it finished by deadline!!!

Muhahahaha!

 :D

[Esopo]

How many entries do we have? Any chance of expanding the deadline to, say, next Saturday (29)?

[COBOLdinosaur]

It looks like everyone is still working on entries so the deadline is extended until April 29th.  When has anyone in IT ever made a deadline?

Cd&

[Esopo]

When has anyone in IT ever made a deadline?

Exactly. It would be unnatural  :D  :thumbup: