Remove pagination

[nicholassolutions]

I propose we remove the pagination of threads, i.e. I think threads should display all the content on a single page. I have not looked at the code, but I imagine it is simply a matter of changing the limit in a for() loop somewhere (finding it in the phpbb code is another story, but it's doable).

Here's my reasoning:

Pros:

• It's easy to do and even easier to undo
• It will make it easier to scroll through a thread and look back at previous posts (right now it's a PITA in my opinion)
• It will reduce the number of hits on the database (maybe)
• It will help with SEO by placing more keywords on a single page together (maybe)
• It may use less bandwidth, because people are not moving back and forth between the pages, requesting the same content over and over again (that would just be a matter of looking in the logs to see habits, and a matter of how people have their caching set up).

Cons:

• It may use more bandwidth
• Everyone may like it the way it is, and I'm the only one who finds it annoying
• page load times may be slightly slower for some users

What do people think?

[COBOLdinosaur]

The code does not have to be touched.  It is a configuration setting I can chagne from the admin panel.

It is currently set to 15 comments per page.  Othe other realted setting are topics per page 50, and the level at which a page show as a hot topic is 15.

It will add bandwidth, but not a significant amount.  It will add slightly to page LOAD time, but more significant is that it will add to rendering time, especially for IE users.

However it is a legitimate proposal that should be put to a vote to determine. However I don't think just all comments or status quo need to be the options in a vote.

It can be set to anyvalue, and it can also be dynamic by adding it to a member's profile and offering it as a profile option.  We can do it with all three of those settings.

There are already forums that so that, so it is probably jsut a mod I have to install, though it may require some playing with because of all the changes we have done to the PHPBB code.

I think a setting of "all Comments" is certain to: make it impossible for some older computers on slow connections unable to download because they time out.  Even with it as an option, "unlimited" is not a good idea because it will not just increase bandwidth a little, but it will use more CPU, and force higher queue utilization, because everything is a shared resource.  Not just a sharing among ERT members, but also a sharing of resources with other sites on our server.

Remember back in October when the server came under DoS attacks directed against another site, and how we were slow and sometimes unavailable as a result for about 2 weeks. I think there must be a limit but let's discuss this and see how high that limit should be, and whether the community wants us to see it we can put code for profile options in place so everyone can set their own pace.

 :^)

Cd&

[Esopo]

I agree with having people decide in their profiles whether they want pagination and how many entries per page.

[nicholassolutions]

of course - that's the only way to make everyone happy. I vote for that too, especially if it's easy to implement.

[COBOLdinosaur]

I vote for that too, especially if it's easy to implement.

Whether it is easy or not will depend on the mod I find to do it and whether I can install it with easy mod or if I have to do it manually.

If it is manual, then it means DB changes, SQL script changes and and PHP page changes for functionality and template changes for layout.

I will be able to estimate it by the time coral1 is rady to set it up for a vote; so we will have an informed vote, and know how long a change will take to implement.

 :^)

Cd&

[coral1]

Interesting.

I don't keep tabs on all the topics, but the one I do track seem to stay under 2 pages, for the most part. Maybe a profile choice of something like: 10-20-30, or 15-30-45.

Waiting to see what the "number crunching" looks like.   :coffee2:

[Esopo]

As a personal opinion, I think that 15 per page makes sense as a default and for registered users I like the 15-30-45 (perhaps 15,25,35,50) with an extra "unlimited".

[seandelaney]

adding it to a member's profile and offering it as a profile option

Sorry to be repeating what is already said, but yes it is a good idea.

I do find it annoying sometimes to have to browse each page when searching for things.  

I think that 15 per page makes sense as a default and for registered users I like the 15-30-45 (perhaps 15,25,35,50) with an extra "unlimited".

Another good idea - offering more features to the registered user might/will prompt more users to register instead of been guests.

<offtopic>
Talking about guests - I have been keeping an eye on who's viewing what lately and i have noticed alot of guests viewing our pages, but not neccessarly registering to post a response.  Although i have seen an increase in the last week in the number of members.
</offtopic>

[COBOLdinosaur]

I have been keeping an eye on who's viewing what lately and i have noticed alot of guests viewing our pages, but not neccessarly registering to post a response.

Our traffic has doubled over the last 6 weeks.

From Sept to Dec we were using less than 25% of available bandwith.  In January we went live in the middle of the month and used 40%.  In February 65%, and March is just coming up on 80%; it will be 90% by the end of the month.  

I will be upgrading in April because if I don't we will run out of bandwidth.

However, most of the at new traffic is going to the content side.  We have had just uner 4000 unique visitors for the month. If you look at the entry pages, and do some tracking on visitors you see a problem.  

There are two main entry points.  The forum index page and the home page.

This is the breakdown of how users entered the site:

December: Forum 60% -- Content 14% -- Re-direct from my old site 12%
January: Forum 48% -- Content 35% -- nothing else above 3%
February: Forum 48% -- Content 39%
March(MTD): Forum 28% -- 54%

The common pattern is that they come to the content side off of an external link (we have about 200) or off of Google or MSN (We are getting diddly from Yahoo).  Once they are on the site they are spending time in the articles and tutorial.  The tech news page is getting morpopular every week, and we ahre getting a lot of hits on our RSS feed; including being pickup by some aggregations services.

However the Forum seems to be a problem. 90% of the entries are members the the other 10% is coming off of Google.  Only 5% of the content side visitors are coming to the forum, and most of them do not look at any threads.  They look at the index and leave.

So there are a bunch of changes that will be happening. Custom RSS feeds -- Members only.... Link directly to forum topic in the content pages.  A re-design of the content and forum UI to integrate the look and feel.  

Promotion of the forum with the chance for members to win a free website.  The design of the site is such that the content side should have more traffic.  All the numbers at this point are where they should be and we are ahead of projected overall growth.  The only number under what it should be is the number of registered members.  That should be around 200-250.  

I have concentrated on getting us search engine rankings and we are coming up on page one of searches 40-50 times a day.  so now the task is to get some of those visitors to register... working on it.  As of right now for the month of March we have delivered 13,249 pages (avg 497 a day; peak 870).  That is plenty of page hits for a site this new, but I still need to alter the behaviour of visitors to get more of them registering. Alexa shows us moving up in traffic rankings and we have spiked into the top 100,000 several times.

The forum does not look like it yet, but by all measures the site looks like a success two months after going live.

 :^)

Cd&

[coral1]

Set up a Poll or let it simmer some more?   :wink:

[seandelaney]

simmer...

[CrYpTiC_MauleR]

I thought I was the only one who didnt like them. Got really annoying having to page back and forth. I vote for option in account settings to paginate on/off

[Huntress]

I agree with Nick.  Leave it up to the users.

[COBOLdinosaur]

Okay let's set up a vote on it.  What is decided will get implemented when we start rollling out the new look in the forum.

A word of caution about pagination.  One of the reasons it get used is bandwidth an and another is load time.  If the default is no pagination the site may appear slow to newbies who still have the default.

Th extra bandwith of sending 5 pages every time someone goes ia to a large question.  LArge questions are also like to have the most traffic.  Consider the aver 20k page a topic that is 5 pages will load 100k If  it gets 100views that is 10Mb.

If the same topic is paginated the server probably on ends up loding an average of 3 of the 5 pages at a cost of 60k so 100 views is 6 meg and we save 4 meg.  Do that with a few threads every month and you can see a lot of wasted bandwith.  So we still need to proceed with this vote, but be careful what ou wish for.  We could end up creatig a new problem.  I don't think anyone is disagree that haveing options is not good I think we need to frame limits.  If we don't; we are begging for trouble.  

So what are the options that we should vote on?

[seandelaney]

i suggest vote on these:

-leave pagation turned on
-remove pagation altogether
-make it an option in user account settings to paginate on/off (but made it on my default)

my reason to set it on my default is i agree with Roys comments on that:

the site may appear slow to newbies

I also think :

Th extra bandwith of sending 5 pages every time someone goes ia to a large question. LArge questions are also like to have the most traffic. Consider the aver 20k page a topic that is 5 pages will load 100k If it gets 100views that is 10Mb.

is an very important point to note!