The number one exit page: forum index 1688.
I think about it in terms the best features for a forum instead of looking at what can be built from basic forum architecture.
The content side is helping hundreds of users, will help thousands and has the potential to reach tens of thousands, but not if it is dragged down by a dysfunction supplement and support component.
All good information and the inference that the forum is a turn off is well made.
I'm not sure what a newsletter does or does not do for that.
I'm also not convinced that the correct response to the exit stat is to whack the forum. Clearly the plan to develop an alternative and/or replacement is sound, especially if the vision is vastly removed from current Q&A style the forum lends itself to.
Maybe the forum becomes such a small aspect of the site that it is only used for administrative communications and/or mentor interactions once the "mentor style" software is ready.
Between April 30th and the date the new environment is available, the forum is about the only way to interact with persons seeking assistance, and has a useful purpose in member communications, albeit flawed.
I vote we keep on going ...
That was not an option.
Before whacking the forum I would consider what the "purpose" of the site truly is. How does one who wishes to learn let us know? Does the person ask? Do we decide what the subjects will be and then try to attract the students?
Maybe a wiki is more appropriate than a forum. The articles can form a jumping off point and the wiki the ability to expand upon those topics, collaboratively, taking them from article to mentor driven class. Connections between the articles, and holes in the knowledge provided can be filled. The wiki has the ability to discuss entries as one might between mentor and student.
Still, forum, wiki, or new innovative mentorWare, we need to communicate, and receive notifications when participation is required, or when an area of interest is updated or changed.
In the spirit of community and democracy discussions and consensus should be achieved before ripping out the forum portion of the site.
Absent the few of us that have continued to participate in this discussion, anyone who failed to respond to a notif is now out of the loop.
Assuming you care what their vote or contribution would be, how may we contact them for input?
Removing the forum might remove the platform for implementing some of the communications improvements suggested, or make them much more difficult to implement. Frankly the way the announcement was made and worded it seems that might have been more of a motivation (nip this anarchy in the bud) versus, you know we have major problems which might make your efforts wasted should we decide to remove the forum.
It won't, I think, remove the need to communicate better nor make a lot of difference in the ideas in the suggestions put forth.
The mentorWare will still need some form of communication. RSS for all its wonderful points is not enough.
100% of the registered people here use e-mail.
Some percentage of the active participants tell us that RSS does not fulfill there communication needs.
22% might want communications via IM.
This topic will not die if we take phpBB out.
I had to change the library I made available for download for the JavaScript Include article (which is darn popular by the way.) It would have been darn professional to have allowed people who read the article to have been able to subscribe to the article and get a notif if it was updated.
With the current forum software, I can start a topic to discuss the article, put the link to the discussion in the article, received feedback from visitors and *maybe* send them a notif if the code changes because of a flaw.
Maybe the people who were helped, and decided to download the code or use the code examples would also like to know about the flaw I fixed (and the other one I discovered and am trying unsuccessfully to kill, re:KHTML).
Could also do that from a wiki type of backend.
Would also be a nice feature in the mentorWare.
If the notif is a "now or never" notif, as we currently have, it won't work.
RSS isn't useless for that, but what if the only change I want to be notified about is the Matt's Header article? Notifs (while flawed) are fine grained in that you may come here an only subscribe to the Matt's Header article topic (were there one, hint hint.) Maybe I can use some RSS tool to do that also. From both the point of view of a contributor and a seeker of knowledge, why do I have to learn to use a new tool to use the site? 100% of the users have e-mail.
I do not need to use some tool I do not know how to use to pull the RSS feed and scan for changes to Matt's headers, I can wait for one or many notifs. If one never comes, okay. If I get too many, I can unsub with a click.
With or without the forum, the consensus so far as the conversation has been allowed, is that we need to work on communications.
Clearly we need to work on other aspects of the site as well.
Maybe, in the time between no and the release of mentorWare, the forum be changed from the current topic areas to just a few... discussions about the content that is attracting visitors, (with tell me if the article-code changes topics) and a topic area for suggested new articles. Add a link from each article to its discussion thread and its bug-new code threads.
If people are coming for the content, they might comment on the content, rather than asking a question. If they don't have an apparent Q&A forum, but just a simple tell us what you would like to see topic, maybe they would be more inclined to interact. At the same time some TAs can be hidden from non mentors, non site builders for discussions and communications (like this thread).
It might not be so much that it is a forum as how we have decided to use it.
If someone posted this article sucks, we would at least have the opportunity to say what could we change so that it would have been helpful, possibly starting a mentor driven topic.
(RSS…)Is that a replacement for email notifs? No. It is a supplement.
(RSS…)but it will never be a replacement for email notifs; as long as users want them.
Exactly. We agree it is no substitute, so can we talk about how to use email to best advantage for the convenience of the customers, to increase participation and to increase retention? Whacking the forum without discussion isn’t appropriate.
(RSS…)…when they want it at the click of the mouse.
…which will still be the problem.
Expecting-Demanding the customer’s DO something to keep informed.
The customers will not click, and/or
The customers do not know how to use RSS to advantage, and/or
The customers find it unsuitable.
Forum, wiki or mentorWare, we still need the suggestions made.
<beat a dead horse mode>
1. Be it daily or weekly; a site summary needs to be mailed to customers.
Expecting customers to get the summary only from a news feed means we lose the opportunity to keep ALL customers in the loop. If a customer prefers to not receive a site summary they should be able to unsub and we would definitely want to tell them they also have the RSS option. Even with no forum we still need a newsletter or whatever we decide to call it. Some will not do, can not do, or don’t want to do RSS.
2. Mentors, Site Builders and Editors need to be subscribed automatically to certain TAs and get a minimum of a daily summary of those posts E-Mailed to them. For example Site Operation, Bugs and maybe even the Soap Box.
If a person has the commitment to be a mentor or site builder there are some items they should be notified about and expected to be willing to receive. What level of news and what frequency can be determined by a combination of guidance from the governing council (is it important enough for the message to be sent) and feedback from the members. Forum or no forum, assuming there is a need for participation there is a need for communication. We would have gotten a lot more help from me if I was getting e-mails.
3. Any member eligible to vote should be notified by e-mail of any new poll.
Again, this is not forum dependent. I imagine the admin has the ability to send mail to a group. It is a basic forum function, though maybe not with phpBB. I do not know. Obviously there are other tools that could be used, but I’m pretty sure phpBB can do group mails. One would expect the member’s could opt out if that is their choice.
4. Every notif should have at least a snippet of the new post attached so the customer can get an idea what was posted.
Some think it is too much work, others think it a good idea. It is a suggestion. Maybe it is too complex or not good enough to rise to the top of the things to do list, but if it were written would it be useful to anyone? If so, a send me summaries option would be an attraction to many and encourage continued participation for some. I think I’ve said how necessary a notif will be even without a forum.
Like all of us, I can suffer information overload. I sometimes have to ignore a notif because I have more pressing matters. Yet I nearly always glance at the notif before moving on. A snippet might get my attention on those days if I see the item requires my attention as a mentor or user.
5. EVERY notif, general e-mail, RSS summary page, etc. should be used to advertise additional information about site events and news. Hot topics, news worthy items, site statistics...anything that will generate interest in visiting the site should be summarized in a side bar or at the end of the message.
I’m not advocating SPAM. We have a legitimate reason to send a notif. The customer has subscribed and requested the notif. We put the notif info up top. Why waste the message or confine its purpose. In ADDITION to the few words necessary to convey the notif, add information the customer may find beneficial or which may spark further interest in the site. Many times it won’t be read. The customer will click on the notif link and that will be that.
Many times we drive by a billboard and ignore it also. Yet, we often recall the ad and may try the product.
We are not sending additional mail. We are not sending unsolicited mail. We are maximizing our use of that communication. Same as putting your company’s URL on the business cards and other literature. Maximize the value of the communication to advertise available additional information.
Forum or not: If we can send a legitimate communication, we should make the most of it, including notifs.
6. The current method of automatically unsubscribing customers from topic to which they have subscribed has to be corrected as soon as possible.
For this site, this is just plain bad. For other sites it might be useful. If we need notifs, we need notifs that are not “now or never.”
We should make it easy to stop getting notifs but we should never unsubscribe a customer.
7. Every message from ERT to a customer, be it a notif or a mass mailing needs to tell the customer what to do up front in plain and simple terms. PLEASE VISIT...
The current notif can be trimmed in size and convey a more effective message. Basic business writing is all. The example I provided also included suggested content from suggestions 4 and 5, which are to maximize the value of the already legitimate, subscribed, desired notification. Even if 4 and 5 are rejected by the community at large, the first part of the notif can be more concise and compelling.
8. There needs to be a page or area to manage notifications (possibly in the user profile, or at least linked to that).
That’s a given is any of the above are implemented. I realize that requires a form and flag fields for the user.
9. Further enhancements to encourage registration and participation should be actively solicited.
Not fluff. RQualding’s IM suggestion is a good idea. Certainly worth discussing.
</beat a dead horse mode>
Community – Democracy – Mentor Driven. That implies to me the community will make suggestions, post complaints and discuss topics of interest. Some suggestions will be good. Some bad. Some practical, some not.
It also implies communication so all can participate or find it easy to do so.
(RSS…) However it does reduce the kinds of things that a forum should be trying to do with email.
Worth pondering and discussion…which is why this topic is here. For the most part, if you read my suggestions again, I am not talking about adding mail, per se, but using it to better advantage. The suggestions are still valid were we to revamp the forum or replace it with mentorWare.
It would be better to table the discussion until we make progress with the GC and/or your injuries have healed. In the mean time I would also propose it isn't the time to make rash decisions without community input and discussion.
