Watch Topic Area Suggestion...

[Huntress]

I know you all like the RSS thing but I still want the option to subscribe to an entire forum and others have expressed the same feeling to me too.  I've missed a lot lately because of closing the window too soon or being distracted by something and it's making it harder to keep up on things.  I believe that's one of the reasons we've lost a few people.

And just so you know...I've only used the RSS once.  Can't remember to go back.

[COBOLdinosaur]

It will be going in right afer I do the upgrade to phpbb 2.0.18 next week.

[Huntress]

EXCELLENT!!  Let me say thank you for everyone who's been waiting for this to be implemented.  (can you tell that I like that word? LOL)

[Srirangan]

I know you all like the RSS thing but I still want the option to subscribe to an entire forum and others have expressed the same feeling to me too.  I've missed a lot lately because of closing the window too soon or being distracted by something and it's making it harder to keep up on things.  I believe that's one of the reasons we've lost a few people.

And just so you know...I've only used the RSS once.  Can't remember to go back.

:)

RSS is still the answer. I have a local application I use for some of my websites. It's an RSS to Email script.

You enter your email address, and you enter the url of the feed you want to watch.

Then daily as the cron runs, you will receive an email with the contents of the feeds you have subscribed to.  :thumbup:

PS: If required I can customize the code and make it available for ERT.

[COBOLdinosaur]

Keep that handy.  Once I get the RSS feed options page done we might want to add something like that.  The only problem is if it becomes too popular it might put a heavy load on the mail server.  If members no longer active close out the email account where the feed is going then you start getting email bounces and have to deal with that as well.  When you have a small number of users thing like that are okay, but it can be a real problem to manage if the volume of emails is high.

One of those thing you have to look at for cost/benefit analysis.  Let's keep the idea alive and in mind and re-visit it later after we have some idea of how much RSS gets used once I have multiple feeds set up.

[Anonymous]

That's a script I seem to recall helping someone on TOS help develop.

Multiple email addresses with multiple feeds and generates emails for all unreceived threads.

It needed some tidying up to deal with all the different RSS feed formats, but essentially it was working.

Can't seem to find the question. Ho hum!

[COBOLdinosaur]

I'm not sure I like the idea of doing a push on the feeds.

To reduce the risk of spammers hijacking and using mail servers the host has limits on bulk mailing that will shut down the smtp server if it looks like it is sending out spam. An automated system is liable to trigger that and we end up with no email until I convince the host we are not spamming.

Second is that if we send the feeds out by email we remove one of the reasons for members to visit the site every day.  They are going to be looking at a narrow subset instead of coming on to the site and seeing what is going on.

One of the problems that is common to virtually every forum I have ever been on is that they all have occassional email problems, so I am not real keen on solutions that rely on email.

Auto feeds are a step down the same wrong path that TOS got on that has Quick Post in the hands of Googledroids posting worthless link in every question.  If a member is not interested in visiting the site to see what is going on, then whay make it convenient for them?  ERT is not a quick Q and A. it is a discussion forum and members reading email on their computers are not on the site where they might be able to contribute discussions.

Let's look at the script and see if we can make use of it, but not as a general tool to give all the members rss feeds by email.

[rdivilbiss]

I'm not sure I like the idea of doing a push on the feeds.

If I understand your responses on this and similar threads, re: notifs, you do not want to tell subscribers that anything is happening here. You want them to discover it on their own.

That's BS and it is not working. I have a vested interest in what is going on here, yet we insist I must come look at (who knows how many topic areas) to find out? Maybe I check five times today and nothing new has been posted. An hour after my last check a new poll is posted and I have no clue. But that is my fault for not checking again?

When I subscribe to any forum, an e-mail notif telling me there is new activity is not SPAM, it is expected. It is the normal behavior of a forum and the hallmark of a site which wants me to visit and participate.

From day one, I have had great difficulty keeping aware of what is happening at ERT. Today I just discovered there were three polls, all of which I was interested in... NONE of which I was notified about.

We can complain all we want about a lack of participation. It is not the member's fault if we choose not to communicate with people.

I do not get notifs in topics I am subscribed to most of the time. I frequently do not get notifs of new topics in forums I am watching. There is no place to subscribe to ALL forums, or manage subscriptions.

Important items regarding democratic participation should be pushed. Period.

Having a notif system that is not sending notifs is not going to cut it.

... the host has limits on bulk mailing that will shut down the smtp server if it looks like it is sending out spam.

That problem was solved at SE simply enough. I do not believe this is a legitimate issue. If it is, change hosts.

... if we send the feeds out by email we remove one of the reasons for members to visit the site every day. They are going to be looking at a narrow subset instead of coming on to the site and seeing what is going on.

Absolutely wrong headed. If we do not tell people there is a reason to come, they will not come.  The proof is in the participation.

We currently send NO summary and next to NOBODY visits!

We do not send a notif to the site builders and mentors that there are polls which require their vote and they are blamed for not checking every day.

I think I am a very typical user of the Internet. I am subscribed to many forums, news sites and newsletters. I get information regarding my bills, banking, credit cards, Cub Scouts, my web sites, my son's lunch fee balance, etc.  It takes some time to glance at those and decide what needs my attention. Sometimes, there are more notifs than I can deal with and I use the follow up flags in the e-mail client to prioritize. No notice means something which needs my attention will be forgotten at the end of the day.

Cd& has mentioned "signal to noise ratio" before. There are times when I have too much noise and it is hard to find the signal. That makes it even more important that the sites who wish me to visit let me know there is a reason.

Even doctor's offices have started calling or e-mailing their  patients (customers) the day before a visit. Missed appointments are lost opportunities for revenue. Reminders dramatically decrease missed appointments (increase participation/revenue).

One of the problems that is common to virtually every forum I have ever been on is that they all have occassional email problems, so I am not real keen on solutions that rely on email.

eBay, Google and Amazon are by any measure wildly successful Internet operations and rely on e-mail, and lots of it to keep participation(=revenue) high.

RSS is still the answer.

If not downright laughable that is certainly debatable. Obviously it does not work here. RSS may have some sort of future, but I have nothing in Firefox/Thunderbird or IE/Outlook that makes it slightly plausible as a way to alert me when my attention is desired or needed. Maybe I need a plug-in, a third party program or just an education in RSS. So what?

We only want participation from people more technically savvy than me? [Think about that one, because I'm hardly a n00b even if you know something about RSS that hasn't filtered into my brain yet.] E-mail is mainstream. My grandmother has e-mail.

If a member is not interested in visiting the site to see what is going on, then whay make it convenient for them?

I can't wait until we here a quote from Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates or ANY successful business person saying if the customers are not interested in buying their product, why make it convenient for them.

It is high time to yank our heads out of where ever they are stuck and face facts.

Members (including site builders and mentors) are consumers of the services of this site. In simple terms they are customers. Regardless of the intent behind ERT, ERT is a business. To treat it otherwise is ridiculous and will ensure ERT fails.

No amount of altruism or high minded ideals replaces the blunt reality that we must have active participation to be successful. ERT has costs and must produce income to survive. The bills must be paid.

This is just as true for a non-profit institution as a commercial venture. A rose by any name... "Members", "Donors", "Patients", "consumers" ... they are CUSTOMERS. If you do not solicit customers and you do not treat them well they will go away.

It is either folly or a lie to say otherwise. Every opportunity to communicate with customers is an opportunity to generate interest, traffic and revenue.

Every notif is an opportunity to advertise the services and benefits of the site and to encourage participation by the customers.

Saying F' the customers they can come see for their self what is happening is a guarantee that this business will fail. (If we lie and say this is not a business it will fail.)

We can argue the merits of opt in versus opt out, or any other scheme that is relevant to encouraging participation, but at the present time we are pissing on the customer and not even letting them know there is any reason to visit.

This is not just a rant: I'll offer some suggestions.

1. Be it daily or weekly, a site summary needs to be mailed to customers.

2. Mentors, Site Builders and Editors need to be subscribed automatically to certain TAs and get a minimum of a daily summary of those posts E-Mailed to them.  For example Site Operation, Bugs and maybe even the Soap Box.

3. Any member eligible to vote should be notified by e-mail of any new poll.

4. Every notif should have at least a snippet of the new post attached so the customer can get an idea what was posted.

5. EVERY notif, general e-mail, RSS summary page, etc. should be used to advertise additional information about site events and news.  Hot topics, news worthy items, site statistics...anything that will generate interest in visiting the site should be summarized in a side bar or at the end of the message.

6. The current method of automatically unsubscribing customers from topic to which they have subscribed has to be corrected as soon as possible. [If you are not aware, one of the biggest problems with notifs is being cut off:]

Code:

You are receiving this email because you are watching the topic, "Topic Subject" at Experts Round Table. This topic has received a reply since your last visit. You can use the following link to view the replies made, [b]no more notifications will be sent until you visit the topic.[/b]"

If a customer misses a single notif, is too busy to visit a thread at the present moment, we will quit communicating to the customer. What a tremendously bad idea!!!  Counter intuitive and counter productive.

The customer subscribed and we allow the system to automatically unsubscribe him!

No wonder I do not get notifs. All I have to do is miss one and the system shuts me down.

8. Every message from ERT to a customer, be it a notif or a mass mailing needs to tell the customer what to do up front in plain and simple terms.  PLEASE VISIT...

It also needs to actively ADVERTISE our site to the customer...

Code:

You are receiving this email because you are watching the topic, "Topic Subject" at Experts Round Table. This topic has received a reply since your last visit. You can use the following link to view the replies made, no more notifications will be sent until you visit the topic.

http://expertsrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=nnnn#nnnn

should be...

Code:

A reply has been posted to a topic you are watching at Experts Round Table. Please Visit that topic at this link:"

http://expertsrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=nnnn#nnnn

"Topic Subject"

joeblow posted: "I think the problem with your code is you forgot to declare your variable X"...[click here to read more]

FEATURED ARTICLE
"HTTP Headers & the PHP header() Function" [link]

HOT TOPICS
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MEMBERS NEEDING HELP
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MEMBERS ONLY:
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Super Firewall plus has graciously offered a 30% discount on their fine product exclusively to ERT members.

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You are receiving this email because you are watching the topic, "Topic Subject" at Experts Round Table.

If you no longer wish to watch this topic you can either click the "Stop watching this topic link" found at the bottom of the topic above, or by clicking the following link:

http://expertsrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=nnnn&unwatch=topic

Experts Round Table is devoted to collaborative technical education. Thank you for your participation. Please visit our site summary page http://expertsrt.com/summary/index.php

7. There needs to be a page or area to manage notifications (possibly in the user profile, or at least linked to that).

Of course, that is useless if we continue to take the point of view that we will not notify the customer of anything and expect the customer to just happen to decide to show up, and if he does not, forget him....

8. Further enhancements to encourage registration and participation should be actively solicited.

If I search for "prettyrss" I get zero results. (if some one could post the link, I'd appreciate it as my laptop broke and I do not have that pages bookmark at the moment.)

When the page said it found no results, it should have asked me if I wanted to post a topic and ask the mentors for help.

[Jasper]

I'll put my 2 cents in.

I don't have the time to constantly check into what is going on here.  I usually only come when I get an email about a new topic.  I hate the fact that I can't tell from the email what its about, other then the subject.  I don't remember the last time I logged into suspended experts website, but, I am subscribed to every forum and get tons of emails keeping me up to date.

Call me lazy if you want, but really, I don't have time to hunt down topics to answer.  As it is, I get an email that tells me There is a new question in one of my topic areas.  Then I come to check it out.  It would simplify my life to get the total question in email.  Also, if I don't go check out the question, I don't get any more info on it.  If I want to unsub, I will.  For TOS, I use Quickpost.  I love that program.  I sub to my topics, keeps me up-to-date.  Something like that, with follow up emails WITH full post in it would be great.

This site needs to be convienant to use for both the end users and the mentors/builders/etc.

[nicholassolutions]

I basically agree with everything Rod has said. Even as one of the most active members and someone who has been involved with most of the technical changes to the site, I miss stuff. At one point Richard made a poll participation table showing who participated in which polls. I was surprised to find that despite my best efforts I'd missed quite a few.

The voter information page is a good start, but it would be an EXCELLENT idea to include reminders and other current information in the notifs. How easy this is to implement I don't know -- if Sandi has the time I'm sure she could do it in the Admin panel....if someone else without those permissions is going to do it, setting that up may be more difficult....which brings me to the point that a lot of these problems are not so much problems of policy but of available resources to implement new ideas. The ideas are all good. Implementing them is going to take time.

One thing I'm not sure I agree with is the number of notifs. I absolutely HATE getting spammed by EE every time somone posts 'yeah good idea LOL' to a topic, even though I filter all my notifs to a separate folder (this was especially annoying before I shut off my T-bird email notif sounds). Often I get irritated enough to unsub from threads that I was actually marginally interested in....but Rod's obviously right about the danger of getting dropped if you don't get the email, or you just happen to miss it or delete it accidentally. I guess I would rather be mildly annoyed (and frankly I'm annoyed by the EE notices largely because they are *from* EE) that uninformed.

[SSirica]

Yeah, I don't check here regularly either.  I'm only here now because I got a email.  I guess they do work.

[nicholassolutions]

By the way, I should point out that my participation in this discussion was prompted by an annoying, unsolicited email from SE  ;-) (and I suspect Jasper, whom I haven't seen around much lately, was also brought here -- within only a few minutes of the post -- by that same notif). It's effective.

[nicholassolutions]

SSirica stole my point :)
By the way, I would be less annoyed by the EE notifs if they contained the content of the post, so I knew whether it was worth visiting to read it or not. I think Rod's prototype notif above is just about perfect...OK, I'll stop spamming this thread now.

[Esopo]

I'm also here because of the unsolicited email, it works. I would have surely missed this post/thread without it.

I agree with the need of a more active notif system, I personally proposed a newsletter at least once before.

I also agree that constant notifs for every single post in a thread are very annoying, and I also agree that being unsub from a thread after the first notifs is a recipe for losing track. Maybe the site could send one notif per day for active threads.

I'm not sure I agree with autosubscribing every member to democratic threads though. Perhaps a weekly summary of the new topics will do (perhaps in a weekly newsletter), granted that the poll dealines extend over 7 days.

[rdivilbiss]

Yeah, I don't check here regularly either.  I'm only here now because I got a email.  I guess they do work.

I actually manually e-mailed everyone I could, either from ERT or via SE.  Which I think also supports the position that some topics might need to be PUSHED to everyone.

Sorry for those who might be annoyed at what I chose to do.